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Title
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Seeds of Discontent, raw interviews with mother regarding Aid to Dependent Children and woman from apartment building for episode 5
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Description
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A recording of Smith’s interviews with a mother regarding her experience with the Aid to Dependent Children program, used for episode 5 on the welfare system, and a woman from an apartment building about her living conditions.
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Creator
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Hartford Smith Jr.
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Date
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1968
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Transcription
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Speaker 0 00:00:02 Just going over some basic background information. First of all, how many members are there in your family? How many persons Speaker 1 00:00:11 Are in your family? Four children and myself. Speaker 0 00:00:13 And what's your basic means of Speaker 1 00:00:16 Support ADC. Speaker 0 00:00:18 Um, how long have you lived in the city of Detroit? Speaker 1 00:00:22 I've been here all my life, all your Speaker 0 00:00:23 Life. What kind of problems have you encountered? Um, and raising four children and a relatively poor community where we understand services are not supplied as needed. Speaker 1 00:00:39 I think the main problems that would come up would be, uh, not being able to give the children things that they see other children have. Uh, their school supplies are limited because the money is limited. And if the teacher has to supply school supplies, then it's usually the blue paper or the green paper and the other children in the class. No, from this colored paper that this child is poor, Speaker 0 00:01:07 How do your children usually react to this kind of, uh, treatment? Speaker 1 00:01:13 And they usually take it pretty good. Uh, I've sort of helped them build up a little bit of a resistance to it and help them to understand more about why we have to do this. Rather than that we want to do this. Speaker 0 00:01:30 Do you find that your, your budget, um, on ADC is fairly adequate? Are there some special problems here that you might want to discuss with us? Speaker 1 00:01:39 Well, if I said it was adequate, I would be defeating my own cause, uh, it is not adequate. It never has been adequate. And in order to get an adequate budget and a lot of people are going to have to stop sitting at home and, uh, crying because they don't have enough to eat, but get out there and do something about it. Speaker 0 00:01:59 Are there any other special problems which might be related, uh, to the, the inadequacy of, uh, certainly the ADC budget? Uh, are there any special problems that you've encountered as a result of this and certain basic items such as, as medical care or housing or food for that matter? Speaker 1 00:02:22 Well, I think to take housing, uh, as a first example, um, adequate housing and housing that you would not put shame to have people see, uh, would cost a lot more than ADC grants you for rent. Plus you would have to pay your own utilities. So this lets out any hopes of having a nice place to live. Uh, the second item might be clothing. There are no clothing orders for ADC children. There isn't anything for the mother. So if a mother wanted to go out and work, she couldn't anyway, because she wouldn't have anything to put on her back. Speaker 0 00:03:01 My saying, looking back at everything since you've been on ADC, what could you say in a few words, would that would best describe your feelings about this? Would you want to just break it down a little more in terms of where you see what you see for yourself in the future, what you see for your children in the future? Speaker 1 00:03:37 Well, I really hope to see much more in the future than most people in the same situation. I think a lot of women tend to just give up, and this is the feeling that you get. I had it for years. Um, the only way to get out of this right, is to, like I say, get out there and do something about it so that it don't happen to other people and asked for my children. I think that I've put enough knowledge into them about the situation so that they will do something about it. As far as continuing in school, getting a good education and not being in the same rut when they grow up. Speaker 0 00:04:14 You do feel that there's reason for hope. Speaker 1 00:04:18 There certainly is hope. Speaker 0 00:04:20 A number of organizations now have been working. Um, uh, and, and these areas, uh, the war on poverty looked at some of the problems, uh, certainly within the community, various urban renewal programs were supposed to, oh, make living conditions a little better for the resident to various areas. Um, what has been your experience in looking at, uh, the, the current programs other than an ATC, which are supposed to have been developed to help poor people? Speaker 1 00:04:59 I think most of these have so-called programs to help poor people are programs to give rich people a, maybe more of a morale boost. Uh, I don't think they're designed really to help the poor people, because I've seen many instances where a poor or a poor person has gone to the tap program and asked for assistance. And they were told that there was no funds set up for that kind of assistance. And what I mean by, uh, emergency assistance would be, um, a person who perhaps has to move very, very fast and it hasn't got the moving expenses or a person who, uh, finds himself without any food. There was no, no funds set up for this at all Speaker 0 00:05:54 On one important item. Uh, certainly having, um, the number of children that you have. And certainly in terms of yourself is medical care. Um, recent statistics indicate that, uh, medical care has been rising. The cost of medical care has been rising at a rather rapid clip, uh, for the past 10 years. Have you encountered special problems, uh, in getting medical care for your children, for yourself, uh, as a, to have your ADC status? Speaker 1 00:06:29 Well, no, not really because, um, I take my family to Henry Ford hospital and they've been very good about giving us the kind of treatment that we need and it hasn't cost us anything. Uh, there is some areas where the ADC Medicaid is not covered and this would, this would include dental or eye care hearing. Uh, any of, any of these things. Uh, it isn't covered by that. It's not covered if, um, if a family has a psychological problem or, uh, the children need, let's say, um, counseling, this doesn't cover that either. So in many areas it's not adequate. Speaker 0 00:07:18 How old are you go about, um, our families that, you know, go about trying to solve these kinds of problems? Is there any place that you can turn to? Speaker 1 00:07:30 Uh, yes, there is a lot of people now are joining the welfare groups, uh, throughout the city. And there's the, uh, west side mothers, there's the WCL welfare union. And as a group and as a large group, you can get in there and change the structures. You can change the policies, and if you raise enough, hell you can change the whole system. Speaker 0 00:07:57 You feel now that the basic system of welfare as it exists today is going to have to be changed, or people are going to have a fight. Speaker 1 00:08:07 Yes, it is. Uh, the policy-making boards are constructed of people who are earning anywhere from 12 to $20,000 a year. And they're making the policies which poor people have to live by. And I do not think that a man who is earning a good, substantial living can even begin to feel how a poor person would feel. Speaker 0 00:08:36 Um, based on your contacts with other welfare mothers, through a number of organizations, uh, uh, can you just give us some insights, some information about some of the problems, uh, uh, that their kids may face in terms of getting into school and continuing in school? Speaker 1 00:08:55 Yes, most of the children, uh, do not have an adequate wardrobe and therefore feel very slighted. They will tend to become more and more withdrawn and in time, as soon as the child is old enough to quit school, well quit school, uh, Speaker 0 00:09:12 Some perhaps to, uh, to seek employment so that they can get the money they've been deprived of, uh, others to go out into the streets and pursue a life of crime in order to get the things that they were denied because their mothers were on welfare or ADC. No, these youngsters and sometimes parents who decide to go to various programs to seek aid in the way of work, uh self-help projects, if you will. Um, how do you, how do you feel, uh, the people who were we're stamping these programs, who are in charge of these programs who meet with, uh, applicants on, on a day to day basis, how, what do you feel are the reactions, uh, uh, to people who are seeking help, who are paid, Speaker 1 00:10:08 I'd say out of, let's say, let's say 75% of welfare and eighties, teen mothers, or dropouts who go to any of the employment agencies to seek employment. I'd say only 15% of them will go back again and try to make their own lives. Speaker 0 00:10:29 Why is that? Speaker 1 00:10:31 Well, this is because most people have lived on aid are stereotyped. Uh, the people think of them as, uh, a lower class of human being. They think of them as, uh, scroungers and, uh, leeches and, uh, just anything but a human being. And in their work, they show this, they show the prejudice and they show the, uh, inconsideration for these people. And so therefore many people will just go back onto welfare ATC, and just say the heck with a job, Speaker 0 00:11:08 Just Speaker 1 00:11:08 Courage, discouraged defensive, and, um, just don't care anymore. The job training programs that are offered to the welfare and ADC mothers are not adequate. Uh, you are trained, but you're not trained to go out and work on the job. Uh, the training is perhaps just the very basics. Then you go to the job and find that you love your maybe six to nine months behind and what they're doing so that your training is just down the drain. You can't even get a job with that. With that kind of training. Speaker 0 00:11:54 There has been some comment made about, uh, certainly the investigation procedures or various welfare agencies, uh, on a spatially, uh, ATC. Um, do you feel, uh, that, uh, you're having a difficulty, uh, dating or finding a new mate to the same as any other, uh, uh, single, uh, woman. Um, do you feel that, um, things are made more difficult for you? Just what are your feelings about that? Speaker 1 00:12:28 Well, I think it makes it more difficult because the workers, uh, they constantly have to know what you're doing. It's almost like being married and being unfaithful. And if you do have a male companion coming to the home, then it's, uh, every neighbor's business and it makes they make it your workers business. And before, you know, it, the gentlemen who you are seeing just doesn't want to be caught up in such a hassle, and he has to go down and declare who he is. And so you just sort of give up hope. You just don't, uh, just don't bother anymore or sneak off or something. Speaker 0 00:13:05 So then while you're on ADC, um, and if you really want to, you think in terms of remarriage, uh, it's going to be a very difficult situation then all the way up behind, in other words, they don't seem to be very supportive of the idea of marriage. Speaker 1 00:13:23 Well, they liked the idea of marriage, but they don't go for any of the premarital, um, pleasures. Speaker 0 00:13:37 What other kinds of special problems have you had, um, in terms of, uh, all the kind of friends that, uh, that you might keep, are there conflicts in this area? Are there obstacles placed in it in terms of aside from just men in general, but just your ability to choose your own friends and to live a relatively free social life? Uh, I have there been any problems in a series. Speaker 1 00:14:08 Yes, this is impossible to because, uh, there are workers who are extremely prejudice. You have neighbors who are prejudice. Uh, if you're a white lady with Negro friends, you get problems there because, uh, the worker hears it from the neighbors and the worker will call you and ask that you not have any colored friends coming into your home. And this probably would work just the same way. If, if I were a Negro lady and having white friends come in in a Negro neighborhood, Speaker 0 00:14:41 Jolene, and they, then you feel that, uh, even here in terms of, uh, people who, uh, who are in need of help, that it may be withdrawn. And the basis of race, the friends that you keep, I already life has made difficult for you as a result of, Speaker 1 00:15:00 Yes, it is. You can't, uh, you can't feel like a free individual. You have to feel constantly as though you're being watched. You're being watched by your neighbors. You're being watched by your work, or you're being watched by their supervisors. You're being watched by everybody to make sure you don't do the wrong thing. And as soon as you do the wrong thing, then everyone knows about it. Speaker 0 00:15:23 What happens to an individual, uh, once they're taken off of ATC, do you have any friends that you might know about what has been their experience after they were taken off of ADC? Speaker 1 00:15:40 Uh, their experience has been that they would have to go back to welfare and completely go through the whole thing all over again. Even though they have all of the information in their files, you still would have to bring the information to them. Again, if you don't have birth certificates, or if you don't have the marriage license or whatever, then it is delayed for months and months and months before you can even get a food order. Speaker 0 00:16:17 Okay. Madam, I wonder if you, we could get started by just telling me a little background information. First of all, how many, how long have you lived in the city of Detroit? Speaker 3 00:16:29 I lived here since I'm 12 years old and I'm going to be 69 in December. I see. Speaker 0 00:16:37 Oh, it's been good. 50 years. Yeah. Speaker 3 00:16:40 And then Tyler, the children are worse today than it was when I was a little girl because of the parents would only check up on them and see where they're at. Instead of running the room in the streets with all these teenagers and smoking the way they do. There's a boy down in the hallway here, 12 years old, and he's smoking a cigarette mother don't care. Father's in jail. Speaker 0 00:17:10 How long have you lived in this particular area? Speaker 3 00:17:15 Uh, it'll be two years this month. Speaker 0 00:17:19 Um, how about this particular? Speaker 3 00:17:23 Two years, two years. We lived up on the fourth floor first and it was my heart pain. So that, and the baby, we got brought down here in the first floor I see today. Otherwise we'd still be up on the fourth floor. Speaker 0 00:17:36 Well, what you just tell me a little bit about some of the problems that you faced? Uh, oh, in housing, in any areas say within the past two to three Speaker 3 00:17:48 Years had no trouble because I, well, my family, uh, I've had five children and they're all married, but one and, uh, I was upstairs on the fourth floor. I live with my daughter-in-law, my oldest son. They've got three children when I had my first time to take a look with them. Well, after that, I went to stay with this one, her daddy that's my youngest son. And, uh, then a month after I went to stay with him, I had another one, but it was on the east side then. So we lived on the second floor and he said, it be easy for me to get them down. Well, then we moved over here two years ago to be close to them. I see. But, uh, my son, this son of mine here I'm staying with now has had no trouble at all because I'll take housing. No, no it isn't. Speaker 0 00:18:35 I don't know why. Well, I'll tell you what it is. Some parents don't give a care. When their children get into a place, they let them record say, but when you watch your children and see to them, they don't mark a place up. Then it's going to be hard. It's going to be hard. Well, there's a place on butter. No, 14, 11 butter. Not there repairing the place right now. And I had to talk with her. It was a tough, yes, we need to do a good rental. And she says, how many children you got? I told her the one. And uh, she said they just had three children in there and they ripped that place. That's why they don't want children because the parents don't get the care. Some of them, all I want to do is run around, leave children by themselves. Yes. What about Right? Do you have any problem in terms of repayers, uh, the owner keeping the property up landlord? Speaker 3 00:19:35 Well, the only thing that's got to be done here is this here. See? But that's all I've got, they do keep our rub, you know, our pub, I want a place. So the hot water, they keep that, uh, uh, repair it up because the water goes, he's gonna think out what he's going to, they to, he does it. And there's so many families in here, 54 families In this building on this 54. Speaker 0 00:20:03 How many floors do you have? Speaker 3 00:20:05 Four, four. There was four apartments on the first floor. And then there's 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11. Well, there's one empty one that makes 10, 11, 12 on this floor alone. There's got 13 on each floor. The fourth floors, no, four, some four, not 54, 50, some 47 families in the building, but there's a lot of them that don't care places Speaker 0 00:20:37 You estimate and live in this Speaker 3 00:20:38 Building. We first moved here two years ago. It was over 200. I'd say a little bit more than a hundred right now because he, when he first bought it, he made a lot of move that has four and five children the morning. Speaker 4 00:20:55 Where did the kids have? When Speaker 3 00:20:57 The kids play, they got no place to play. Only out there in that area, just between the, where the, uh, even with the porch, you know, that's the only player or go to a Cass park, which is not a good park to play. And this, um, recreation center from, um, Speaker 4 00:21:15 Calf pipe was not Speaker 3 00:21:16 A good place. No, it isn't. There's too many, but why those over there? I see they. And, uh, you can't blame the parents for not sending them over there. Speaker 4 00:21:27 There's quite a bit of traffic Speaker 3 00:21:28 That goes down. Yes, there is. Yes, there is. And there's a lot of them can't cross them where them lights are by themselves say, Speaker 4 00:21:38 Well, so things have not been too difficult as far as concerned, Speaker 3 00:21:43 Not for us, but for everybody else, I don't want to, there's a lot of them come in and go out, but I don't know them all. Speaker 4 00:21:52 Okay. Well, thank you very much for talking with us.
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Duration
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21:55
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Tag
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detroit
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housing
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poverty
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welfare
